VN Ren'Py Superhuman [v0.996 Public] [WeirdWorld]

[Grimnir098]

If you got raped by Tyrone BitchBreaker, would that make him an anti-hero because he prepares you for prison life? Lol he is simply evil don't go beating around the bush.

Do you feel big poking holes in my wording while ignoring my point, or are you just so stupid you can't understand the very common sentiment I'm expressing?

 

[Grimnir098]

I just can't be bothered... Causing a massacre is a very good outcome. Thanks bro my eyes have been opened

When did I say that?

 

[Gtdead]

It does seem like MC was significantly more compatible with Memory. Ella couldn't become perfect even at level 5, and required a trial at level 3 to become perfect.
The MC, as Ella points out in a dead end, was perfect from the start. He'd already manifested the full trait at level 1.

I think you're overestimating how much compatibility she had with Memory, and thus underestimating how much compatibility she had with Body. We don't actually know how much you need to manifest both traits. Isn't it possible Ella had 10% Memory and 90% Body? That's a significant gap between her and the MC.

That would make Ella purer than the vast majority of the cast, including the Chosen, which goes against her own beliefs and she is the resident expert in compatibility thanks to those eyes. I don't think I'm underestimating her Body compatibility. I think that people haven't internalised this. I'm leaning towards a 70-30 split at best.

 

[Grimnir098]

That would make Ella purer than the vast majority of the cast, including the Chosen, which goes against her own beliefs and she is the resident expert in compatibility thanks to those eyes. I don't think I'm underestimating her Body compatibility. I think that people haven't internalised this. I'm leaning towards a 70-30 split at best.

1. I'm not saying she actually is 90%, I was just asking what you're basing your estimate off.
2a. Where do we find out the compatibility of the cast and the Chosen?
2b. It might not have been you, but I know someone said Valravn has 100% compatibility. In case you're going off his monster report, I'd just like to point out that the "7(100%)" is under "Origin." It seems more likely this refers to his lineage makeup, not how compatible he is with a given Apostle. So Valravn might have, say, 50% compatibility with Darkness, but his Origin will still say 100% because he's Apostlespawn. So if Ella monsterfied, her monster report would say "3(50%), 4(50%)" I think this point is bolstered by Deryl's monster reports. Deryl Tertius has 1-12 (%???) while Deryl Rebis has 12(91%), 3 (6%), and 4 (3%).
Alternatively, this might actually indicate to compatibility, but only because when you monsterfy, the trait completely takes over and modifies your genetics, altering your compatibility.
3. Even a 20% compatibility gap is significant. If her compatibility with Memory is 30% and MC's is 49% at best, that 19%(?) gap still caused a meaningful difference in their ability to use Memory.

 

[mrgreen360]

*hits crackpipe*
How much you guys wanna bet that the ending is gonna be some kind of end of the world scenario in which you gotta choose like who to end it with and shit with Ella knowing this and really manipulating so she get's to stay preferably with the MC, and she's been through these attempts multiple times or some shit and that's like how she knows the MC so well and likes him and shit.

 

[JicioJ]

So the Apostles are separated into twin pairs. Authority and Power, Body and Memory, etc. Each twin pair makes up the Arbiter.
Every Apostle has its twin's trait, albeit much weaker. You see this in the MC's infection scene. He can feel Body trying to get inside his mind, although it requires contact to actually do it. Memory shapeshifts to make her body more appealing.
We also know that only one Apostle was used to infect both Moon twins, and yet they got different powers.

This means that if you get infected by an Apostle and have enough compatibility with its twin's trait, you will manifest that trait. If you have compatibility with a different trait, though, like your Michael example, you won't get that trait, since Power doesn't have Aether.

Body and Memory do want a hybrid, which is why they were satisfied with MC, but he could only become a hybrid because of he was compatible with both Body and Memory.

I understand, I didn't know each apostle has its twin trait, nor that only one apostle infected the Moon Twins, mind if I ask when is this referenced?

 

[DannyLucifer]

So right after the big fight with Jake, the one where Ella sends Jack to Kill MC, after that when Deryl goes coco, MC says he'll ask Ella nonchalantly... Huh!?? What!? What the fuck does that mean Koby Bryant?

 

[SasugaRyzeSama]

Not saying manipulating people is good, but I'm pretty cautious about labelling people evil, and we still don't know what Ella's endgame is. So long as it's a good outcome (edit: i.e. goal), I don't think you can unequivocally call her evil. I generally reserve that for people who have negative goals, like genocide, or neutral goals that they reach through negative means, like serial killing (the goal is pleasure).

There's no reason to think Jake would have fucked up Daryl's brain the way he did Mia. That only happened because of the stress of Mia finding out his secret and deciding to tell the MC.

She didn't use Mia as a hostage, she used her as a bargaining chip. Ella will fix Jake's mistake if Jake does what she wants. She isn't threatening to harm Mia, just to not help her, and she's under no obligation to help Mia.

The goal itself as well as the way of achieving it contributes to the standing of the person. If either is just straight up evil, then you by the very definition cannot be a good person, and being "neutral at best" is very debatable, as traits that can be shown as positive do not contribute to the overall distinction (example: caring, protecting and being loving husband to one's wife, or any person from one's family, does not make one good, an astonishing amount of mafia guys from all around the world are great examples of that). People are complex, have many different parts and angles to them, and one can have good goals and still be fucking evil, just forced to behave ina a way, and vice versa.

We can, tho, look at what a person does when it has a choice, is not forced to anything and make that distinction. If a person does shitty, self-centered, bitchy things to someone else just because, for the power trip, for getting hard over it or any other, then it's evil. Like Ella. She:
- Made people into superhumans that were not able to handle it one way or the other, that then monsterified. That is killing a person over own's self ego. If monsterification is not considered killing, then Jock#2 was killed by her personally. That is evil, straight up. Her not arranging infection of Emily, because she was worried about her pulling through, is not an indication of her being good - if it were, she wouldn't do this shit with someone else.
- Uses people. Like tools. She keeps many with manipulation and lies, she mindfucks into obedience hundreds of monsters (and people) by using other superhuman's powers, has an orphanage for growing useful tools, whose she can dispose of without much fuss if something goes wrong, and when she sees personal gain she does not hesitate to end someone in a flash (see dead end with telling her too much, or being too strong), even if allegedly harboring some positive feelings for them.
- She has a plan, that she works to fulfilling. We do not know what this plan is. But it involves fucking over the world and everyone on it, ensuring somewhere around hundreds of milions casualties at the very best (not all can become superhuman, straight up). And oh so fucking funny thing is - it don't need to work. Ella is not omniscience, she does not know all. Maybe 20 something level fives with a spear made of pure clownium is enough to protect humanity. She does not know, she never reached out to H.E.R.O., or anyone really, to talk this through, going headfirst into what she probably dones't even understand fully, dooming others, even if there are possible better alternatives. Even if she is working for "greater good" (kek), this is evil. Why? She does not check, her ego as the only one that is right. If she would care for common people's lives she would expend even the most basic amount of effort to try something that is less lethal, and she made a choice to do fuck all int that regard.
-She behaves as self-entitled, self-centered, self-absorbed, narcisstic cunt. To everyone she can, or think she can get away with. Power tripping is not a good thing, neither neutral too.

Among many others. in short: Ella is evil.

The MC isn't dumb, he just doesn't think, which ultimately stems from his apathy. It's not that he can't put the pieces together, he just doesn't feel like it.

It is funny concept to me, the evolution rebuilding your body, making it so insanely better. Except the brain, brain is not a part of the body, as evident by MC, or any superhuman really. Level 5's should have supercomputer level computing powers and just about perfect memory judging by how their bodies develop in contrast. Even one level should make average MC excell at school stuff with no effort, but he did not improve in that regard.

 

[JicioJ]

The goal itself as well as the way of achieving it contributes to the standing of the person. If either is just straight up evil, then you by the very definition cannot be a good person, and being "neutral at best" is very debatable, as traits that can be shown as positive do not contribute to the overall distinction (example: caring, protecting and being loving husband to one's wife, or any person from one's family, does not make one good, an astonishing amount of mafia guys from all around the world are great examples of that). People are complex, have many different parts and angles to them, and one can have good goals and still be fucking evil, just forced to behave ina a way, and vice versa.

We can, tho, look at what a person does when it has a choice, is not forced to anything and make that distinction. If a person does shitty, self-centered, bitchy things to someone else just because, for the power trip, for getting hard over it or any other, then it's evil. Like Ella. She:
- Made people into superhumans that were not able to handle it one way or the other, that then monsterified. That is killing a person over own's self ego. If monsterification is not considered killing, then Jock#2 was killed by her personally. That is evil, straight up. Her not arranging infection of Emily, because she was worried about her pulling through, is not an indication of her being good - if it were, she wouldn't do this shit with someone else.
- Uses people. Like tools. She keeps many with manipulation and lies, she mindfucks into obedience hundreds of monsters (and people) by using other superhuman's powers, has an orphanage for growing useful tools, whose she can dispose of without much fuss if something goes wrong, and when she sees personal gain she does not hesitate to end someone in a flash (see dead end with telling her too much, or being too strong), even if allegedly harboring some positive feelings for them.
- She has a plan, that she works to fulfilling. We do not know what this plan is. But it involves fucking over the world and everyone on it, ensuring somewhere around hundreds of milions casualties at the very best (not all can become superhuman, straight up). And oh so fucking funny thing is - it don't need to work. Ella is not omniscience, she does not know all. Maybe 20 something level fives with a spear made of pure clownium is enough to protect humanity. She does not know, she never reached out to H.E.R.O., or anyone really, to talk this through, going headfirst into what she probably dones't even understand fully, dooming others, even if there are possible better alternatives. Even if she is working for "greater good" (kek), this is evil. Why? She does not check, her ego as the only one that is right. If she would care for common people's lives she would expend even the most basic amount of effort to try something that is less lethal, and she made a choice to do fuck all int that regard.
-She behaves as self-entitled, self-centered, self-absorbed, narcisstic cunt. To everyone she can, or think she can get away with. Power tripping is not a good thing, neither neutral too.

Among many others. in short: Ella is evil.


It is funny concept to me, the evolution rebuilding your body, making it so insanely better. Except the brain, brain is not a part of the body, as evident by MC, or any superhuman really. Level 5's should have supercomputer level computing powers and just about perfect memory judging by how their bodies develop in contrast. Even one level should make average MC excell at school stuff with no effort, but he did not improve in that regard.

Ella only infects those who can survive the infection and not straight up die, you can see this when she tries to convert Dave but doesn't follow up as he wouldnt be able to stand it, for jock nº1, Kenny, he actually changes to a Superhuman mostly succesfully until he eats his girlfriend, gets too corrupt and monsterficates, for Jock nº2 its mostly the same, since we know nº2 was infected before Kenny. So it's mostly her misjudging their mental fortitude and not their infection survivavility rate

 

[Grimnir098]

I understand, I didn't know each apostle has its twin trait, nor that only one apostle infected the Moon Twins, mind if I ask when is this referenced?

It's been several months since I played through that content, so I'm not entirely sure.

 

[OnlineRando]

The goal itself as well as the way of achieving it contributes to the standing of the person. If either is just straight up evil, then you by the very definition cannot be a good person, and being "neutral at best" is very debatable, as traits that can be shown as positive do not contribute to the overall distinction (example: caring, protecting and being loving husband to one's wife, or any person from one's family, does not make one good, an astonishing amount of mafia guys from all around the world are great examples of that). People are complex, have many different parts and angles to them, and one can have good goals and still be fucking evil, just forced to behave ina a way, and vice versa.

We can, tho, look at what a person does when it has a choice, is not forced to anything and make that distinction. If a person does shitty, self-centered, bitchy things to someone else just because, for the power trip, for getting hard over it or any other, then it's evil. Like Ella. She:
- Made people into superhumans that were not able to handle it one way or the other, that then monsterified. That is killing a person over own's self ego. If monsterification is not considered killing, then Jock#2 was killed by her personally. That is evil, straight up. Her not arranging infection of Emily, because she was worried about her pulling through, is not an indication of her being good - if it were, she wouldn't do this shit with someone else.
- Uses people. Like tools. She keeps many with manipulation and lies, she mindfucks into obedience hundreds of monsters (and people) by using other superhuman's powers, has an orphanage for growing useful tools, whose she can dispose of without much fuss if something goes wrong, and when she sees personal gain she does not hesitate to end someone in a flash (see dead end with telling her too much, or being too strong), even if allegedly harboring some positive feelings for them.
- She has a plan, that she works to fulfilling. We do not know what this plan is. But it involves fucking over the world and everyone on it, ensuring somewhere around hundreds of milions casualties at the very best (not all can become superhuman, straight up). And oh so fucking funny thing is - it don't need to work. Ella is not omniscience, she does not know all. Maybe 20 something level fives with a spear made of pure clownium is enough to protect humanity. She does not know, she never reached out to H.E.R.O., or anyone really, to talk this through, going headfirst into what she probably dones't even understand fully, dooming others, even if there are possible better alternatives. Even if she is working for "greater good" (kek), this is evil. Why? She does not check, her ego as the only one that is right. If she would care for common people's lives she would expend even the most basic amount of effort to try something that is less lethal, and she made a choice to do fuck all int that regard.
-She behaves as self-entitled, self-centered, self-absorbed, narcisstic cunt. To everyone she can, or think she can get away with. Power tripping is not a good thing, neither neutral too.

Among many others. in short: Ella is evil.


It is funny concept to me, the evolution rebuilding your body, making it so insanely better. Except the brain, brain is not a part of the body, as evident by MC, or any superhuman really. Level 5's should have supercomputer level computing powers and just about perfect memory judging by how their bodies develop in contrast. Even one level should make average MC excell at school stuff with no effort, but he did not improve in that regard.

You're just looking at this too narrowly. You say "She isn't omniscient", and "She didn't talk to anyone to check", but how do you actually know that? We barely know a thing about her, and you are still making baseless assumptions about her plans, her allies, her sources, and her motives.

Turning others into superhumans isn't necessarily power-tripping, and nor is it necessarily evil. It isn't inherently good or neutral either, and depending on the person and the outcome it could be either a blessing or a curse.

As for those that monsterfied and those she killed herself, there is no excuse for that, but if that's your argument, then almost everyone in this game (or even most other games, in general) is a complete monster. Why focus on her?

What's important in situations where objectively horrible actions are committed is intent. There is a reason why killing in proven self-defense does not net you any punishment, and while that isn't the same, my reasoning stands.

Someone who killed in self-defense is as much a killer as a murderer, though one is evidently worse than the other. Someone who kills to save another is just as much a killer as the other two, and yet is even better than both.

Someone who kills to save the world, meanwhile... Well, you get my point.

However, even then, such a person is still objectively evil in the eyes of their victims. Even if you kill a god to save the world, it would still consider you to be evil or in the wrong for trying to stop it, and that's valid in a way.

All that to say, this conversation is stupid. Not only are people spewing subjective judgment while claiming objectivity, said subjective judgment is also rather baseless in most cases.

And this goes for both sides. Ella is not objectively evil for killing people or using people to achieve her goals, and neither is she a saint because she could potentially trying to save the world or something.

Evil isn't a single scale. A serial killer donating money to an orphanage doesn't erase his crimes, but his crimes do not negate the good that money might do or has done. A thief stealing money from the rich to give to the poor doesn't make him evil, but nor is it a good thing to take from others.

 

[Grimnir098]

The goal itself as well as the way of achieving it contributes to the standing of the person. If either is just straight up evil, then you by the very definition cannot be a good person, and being "neutral at best" is very debatable, as traits that can be shown as positive do not contribute to the overall distinction (example: caring, protecting and being loving husband to one's wife, or any person from one's family, does not make one good, an astonishing amount of mafia guys from all around the world are great examples of that). People are complex, have many different parts and angles to them, and one can have good goals and still be fucking evil, just forced to behave ina a way, and vice versa.

We can, tho, look at what a person does when it has a choice, is not forced to anything and make that distinction. If a person does shitty, self-centered, bitchy things to someone else just because, for the power trip, for getting hard over it or any other, then it's evil. Like Ella. She:
- Made people into superhumans that were not able to handle it one way or the other, that then monsterified. That is killing a person over own's self ego. If monsterification is not considered killing, then Jock#2 was killed by her personally. That is evil, straight up. Her not arranging infection of Emily, because she was worried about her pulling through, is not an indication of her being good - if it were, she wouldn't do this shit with someone else.
- Uses people. Like tools. She keeps many with manipulation and lies, she mindfucks into obedience hundreds of monsters (and people) by using other superhuman's powers, has an orphanage for growing useful tools, whose she can dispose of without much fuss if something goes wrong, and when she sees personal gain she does not hesitate to end someone in a flash (see dead end with telling her too much, or being too strong), even if allegedly harboring some positive feelings for them.
- She has a plan, that she works to fulfilling. We do not know what this plan is. But it involves fucking over the world and everyone on it, ensuring somewhere around hundreds of milions casualties at the very best (not all can become superhuman, straight up). And oh so fucking funny thing is - it don't need to work. Ella is not omniscience, she does not know all. Maybe 20 something level fives with a spear made of pure clownium is enough to protect humanity. She does not know, she never reached out to H.E.R.O., or anyone really, to talk this through, going headfirst into what she probably dones't even understand fully, dooming others, even if there are possible better alternatives. Even if she is working for "greater good" (kek), this is evil. Why? She does not check, her ego as the only one that is right. If she would care for common people's lives she would expend even the most basic amount of effort to try something that is less lethal, and she made a choice to do fuck all int that regard.
-She behaves as self-entitled, self-centered, self-absorbed, narcisstic cunt. To everyone she can, or think she can get away with. Power tripping is not a good thing, neither neutral too.

Among many others. in short: Ella is evil.


It is funny concept to me, the evolution rebuilding your body, making it so insanely better. Except the brain, brain is not a part of the body, as evident by MC, or any superhuman really. Level 5's should have supercomputer level computing powers and just about perfect memory judging by how their bodies develop in contrast. Even one level should make average MC excell at school stuff with no effort, but he did not improve in that regard.

You had me thinking you were intelligent and capable of critical thinking until you started breaking down Ella's actions.

1. If she knows you aren't able to handle it, she won't infect you (or rather, let you get infected). When Dave reacts poorly to the pill she gives him, she kills the monster that comes for him.
She doesn't infect Emily because she has a greater understanding of Emily's mental state than she does the jocks. At most, you can argue that she's too careless.
2. Why is killing Jock #2 evil? He attacked her, and given what we see with Kenny, he was definitely going to go on a rampage.
3. She doesn't have the orphanage for tools. She might, but there's literally no evidence that's what she intends. All the superhuman kids (e.g. Cole, Shen, Briar, etc) with her were randomly attacked by monsters and picked up by HERO, then escaped HERO with her help.
4. Not sure why not hesitating to kill someone counts towards her being evil, but she doesn't actually kill the MC. In the first dead end, she kidnaps him and takes him to Memory for something. In the second, she attacks and it cuts to black. I'm pretty sure this is just because WW didn't want to show anything more (most likely because it's just a retread of that first dead end), and he confirmed on a livestream that the MC doesn't die in this dead end.
5. How do you know what she did to become certain her plan is necessary?
6. Citation needed.

 

[DrakoGhoul]

I meant its like this: MC sees the memory of Ella failing the ceremony; MC leaves the memory; 4th chimes in like "yeah she failed, but she's still good breeding stock, so she still has a use to me".

That makes it even less of stretch though if the 4th is talking to MC. While we could still point to her referring to Ella. As she clearly failed whatever ritual she was attempting. There's also a chance that she was actually referring to MC. Who, under the 4th's standard, could be considered a failure at that point in time. Since his Memory Trait was still a bit undertrained. Something Syla was worried about when his training with her first started later. As she believes the 4th is pretty strict about that kind of thing.

Back to Ella real quick. With what we currently know, Ella wasn't directly born by blood. The 3rd's Chosen didn't give birth to Ella. As far as we know, Ella isn't a descendant of an Althuman like MC. And seeing as Syla didn't think it would be possible to have MC and MC was born after Ella. The chances that Ella is the same is slim to none. Especially when the 3rd's previous chosen was killed long ago when Valravn was still at full power. The by blood mention would only make sense for MC in that context. And after that line about being born by blood, the 4th then said failed, but suited to birth.

So for me, it's not actually clear at all who the 4th was referring to anymore. Originally, I thought it was undeniably Ella. However, it's entirely possible for it to be referring to MC. Especially after learning that MC was in fact born by blood. In the most literal sense at that too. And we know MC is suitable to birth the Origin and that's what the Origin and Apostles seem to be after. The only problem with this, which I already acknowledged, was the failed part. As the 4th wouldn't need the liquid to tell MC he's a failure. She could do that at anytime since she's linked to his spirit. Which is what brings doubt to it.

Anyway, I'm currently split on it at this point. Before the past two or so updates, I figured it was only referring to Ella. Which it very well could still be. But after the recent stuff, I could now see it possibly referring to MC. We'll know next update since the memories are still going with MC and he's going to connect directly to the 4th after it's over. As that's the point of the Golden Key. To unlock his memories and connect him directly to the 4th. Or not actually. Since MC Memory Trait has progressed a lot since the Ella Massacre scene.

 

[JicioJ]

That makes it even less of stretch though if the 4th is talking to MC. While we could still point to her referring to Ella. As she clearly failed whatever ritual she was attempting. There's also a chance that she was actually referring to MC. Who, under the 4th's standard, could be considered a failure at that point in time. Since his Memory Trait was still a bit undertrained. Something Syla was worried about when his training with her first started later. As she believes the 4th is pretty strict about that kind of thing.

Back to Ella real quick. With what we currently know, Ella wasn't directly born by blood. The 3rd's Chosen didn't give birth to Ella. As far as we know, Ella isn't a descendant of an Althuman like MC. And seeing as Syla didn't think it would be possible to have MC and MC was born after Ella. The chances that Ella is the same is slim to none. Especially when the 3rd's previous chosen was killed long ago when Valravn was still at full power. The by blood mention would only make sense for MC in that context. And after that line about being born by blood, the 4th then said failed, but suited to birth.

So for me, it's not actually clear at all who the 4th was referring to anymore. Originally, I thought it was undeniably Ella. However, it's entirely possible for it to be referring to MC. Especially after learning that MC was in fact born by blood. In the most literal sense at that too. And we know MC is suitable to birth the Origin and that's what the Origin and Apostles seem to be after. The only problem with this, which I already acknowledged, was the failed part. As the 4th wouldn't need the liquid to tell MC he's a failure. She could do that at anytime since she's linked to his spirit. Which is what brings doubt to it.

Anyway, I'm currently split on it at this point. Before the past two or so updates, I figured it was only referring to Ella. Which it very well could still be. But after the recent stuff, I could now see it possibly referring to MC. We'll know next update since the memories are still going with MC and he's going to connect directly to the 4th after it's over. As that's the point of the Golden Key. To unlock his memories and connect him directly to the 4th. Or not actually. Since MC Memory Trait has progressed a lot since the Ella Massacre scene.

I always thought the born by blood just meant that she needed a lot of blood for the ritual to awaken the memory trait, hence the massacre

 

[DrakoGhoul]

I always thought the born by blood just meant that she needed a lot of blood for the ritual to awaken the memory trait, hence the massacre

There's plenty of ways to interpret the whole Ella and 4th scene. We likely won't ever know unless the 4th brings it up in the next update. Assuming MC actually has a full blown conversation with her like he did with the 7th Apostle during the dream. It should be doable with the 4th also having some level of control over the Immaterial World like him.

 

[JmTrad]

*hits crackpipe*
How much you guys wanna bet that the ending is gonna be some kind of end of the world scenario in which you gotta choose like who to end it with and shit with Ella knowing this and really manipulating so she get's to stay preferably with the MC, and she's been through these attempts multiple times or some shit and that's like how she knows the MC so well and likes him and shit.

I expect having 2 routes in the end: Power of friendship where everyone helps to solve the final problem vs Power MC where he finish everything alone but dies in the end.

 

[SasugaRyzeSama]

You had me thinking you were intelligent and capable of critical thinking until you started breaking down Ella's actions. [...]

Ignoring that pathetic try of flailing one's incelligence around and calling other's stupid. I can do that too, far better than you, choosing not to because it's a wrong thing to do in a conversation about a topic.

1. If she knows you aren't able to handle it, she won't infect you (or rather, let you get infected). When Dave reacts poorly to the pill she gives him, she kills the monster that comes for him.
She doesn't infect Emily because she has a greater understanding of Emily's mental state than she does the jocks. At most, you can argue that she's too careless.
2. Why is killing Jock #2 evil? He attacked her, and given what we see with Kenny, he was definitely going to go on a rampage.
3. She doesn't have the orphanage for tools. She might, but there's literally no evidence that's what she intends. All the superhuman kids (e.g. Cole, Shen, Briar, etc) with her were randomly attacked by monsters and picked up by HERO, then escaped HERO with her help.
4. Not sure why not hesitating to kill someone counts towards her being evil, but she doesn't actually kill the MC. In the first dead end, she kidnaps him and takes him to Memory for something. In the second, she attacks and it cuts to black. I'm pretty sure this is just because WW didn't want to show anything more (most likely because it's just a retread of that first dead end), and he confirmed on a livestream that the MC doesn't die in this dead end.
5. How do you know what she did to become certain her plan is necessary?
6. Citation needed.

Besides me calling her a cunt, the rest of that was to point to her overall not valuing human life, at all, which is my point of her being evil, not likely not bad, just evil. Also, what kind of debunking is this?
1 - Yes, she never turns people that can't make it, that's why those two did make it, clearly capable of pulling through, none of them monsterified, after all. Like, what even is your take here? That if she is certain that you won't pull through that she doesn't do it? Okay, then she just gambles lives of people away.
2 - Yes, he attacked her, the bystander, who had nothing to do with it, certainly not arranging his infection firsthand, so she was innocent. Even more abhorrent is her reaction to that. Remorse at killing someone? Feeling bad? No, "man, I'm losing my touch", not even acknowledging a human life she wasted away for fucking nothing.
3 - Yes, no evidence. This was an overstretch on my part, I just assumed since she case after case manipulates people and uses them, that this is the case here, but it might be different. So yeah, the orphanage is unusable argument.
4 - Oh, not killing MC? Just doing whatever the hell she did, maybe worse? Ok, better examples then: What about that time she murdered her class for a power boost? All right, maybe greater good, grand plan, I'm good and shit and all that, still failed to get what she truly needed so this kinda was just a murderous killing spree, which might be evil, but I can't put my finger on it. All right, another one then: hobo she gutted and turned into a meatball. For what, being a dick, that was already put in place by MC? Or for showing that you can transform others with your power? If there was another way of showing that to a shapeshifter... like using mouth to fucking say that. It's not like she showed MC some direct way to do that, just threw the idea at the wind, one life less on the world. But, I dunno, you loathe hobos and this human life has no meaning for you, okay then. The worst example, that is just quite about literally undefendable. Valravn. She did not even consider for a minute the lives lost if she sets him free. She knew this will be disastrous, she knows what it is and how it works. She needed distraction, so why fucking bother with lives? It's not like Valravn will go specifically after innocent and children, the more innocent and younger the better.
5 - Again, I do not, this is also an overstretch on my part. I assumed again, since she never did consider lives lost, pain and suffering ever before (Valravn, hobo, class, everyone everywhere) that she did not here. But it's not a counterargument too - since no one knows what her plan is. Might not even be about surviving as remnants of humanity, now superhumanity, might just be one giant blood sacrifice. As it currently stands, we just do not know.
6 - ?

So yeah, for now Ella shows quite only a disregard for human life, manipulation, narcissism, power hungry and bitchy behavior. She might work for greater "good", whatever that entails, no one can prove that now, probably never, for now only show of Ella is that of evil shitling that have some morals somewhere. Like the another guy in the thread said some pages ago, if Ella was a dude, no one would be sperming over her and defending her, but some smell pussy even through the electricity and pixels.

 

[mrgreen360]

I expect having 2 routes in the end: Power of friendship where everyone helps to solve the final problem vs Power MC where he finish everything alone but dies in the end.

Whatever ending we get, i just hope we get to have one where we're complete and total assholes but also have a happy ending with Ella, I'd love that one. Fav pick ngl.

Yeah I am an Ella simp how could you tell?

 

[Dipasimaan]

Whatever ending we get, i just hope we get to have one where we're complete and total assholes but also have a happy ending with Ella, I'd love that one. Fav pick ngl.

Yeah I am an Ella simp how could you tell?

 

[Grimnir098]

Ignoring that pathetic try of flailing one's incelligence around and calling other's stupid. I can do that too, far better than you, choosing not to because it's a wrong thing to do in a conversation about a topic.



Besides me calling her a cunt, the rest of that was to point to her overall not valuing human life, at all, which is my point of her being evil, not likely not bad, just evil. Also, what kind of debunking is this?
1 - Yes, she never turns people that can't make it, that's why those two did make it, clearly capable of pulling through, none of them monsterified, after all. Like, what even is your take here? That if she is certain that you won't pull through that she doesn't do it? Okay, then she just gambles lives of people away.
2 - Yes, he attacked her, the bystander, who had nothing to do with it, certainly not arranging his infection firsthand, so she was innocent. Even more abhorrent is her reaction to that. Remorse at killing someone? Feeling bad? No, "man, I'm losing my touch", not even acknowledging a human life she wasted away for fucking nothing.
3 - Yes, no evidence. This was an overstretch on my part, I just assumed since she case after case manipulates people and uses them, that this is the case here, but it might be different. So yeah, the orphanage is unusable argument.
4 - Oh, not killing MC? Just doing whatever the hell she did, maybe worse? Ok, better examples then: What about that time she murdered her class for a power boost? All right, maybe greater good, grand plan, I'm good and shit and all that, still failed to get what she truly needed so this kinda was just a murderous killing spree, which might be evil, but I can't put my finger on it. All right, another one then: hobo she gutted and turned into a meatball. For what, being a dick, that was already put in place by MC? Or for showing that you can transform others with your power? If there was another way of showing that to a shapeshifter... like using mouth to fucking say that. It's not like she showed MC some direct way to do that, just threw the idea at the wind, one life less on the world. But, I dunno, you loathe hobos and this human life has no meaning for you, okay then. The worst example, that is just quite about literally undefendable. Valravn. She did not even consider for a minute the lives lost if she sets him free. She knew this will be disastrous, she knows what it is and how it works. She needed distraction, so why fucking bother with lives? It's not like Valravn will go specifically after innocent and children, the more innocent and younger the better.
5 - Again, I do not, this is also an overstretch on my part. I assumed again, since she never did consider lives lost, pain and suffering ever before (Valravn, hobo, class, everyone everywhere) that she did not here. But it's not a counterargument too - since no one knows what her plan is. Might not even be about surviving as remnants of humanity, now superhumanity, might just be one giant blood sacrifice. As it currently stands, we just do not know.
6 - ?

So yeah, for now Ella shows quite only a disregard for human life, manipulation, narcissism, power hungry and bitchy behavior. She might work for greater "good", whatever that entails, no one can prove that now, probably never, for now only show of Ella is that of evil shitling that have some morals somewhere. Like the another guy in the thread said some pages ago, if Ella was a dude, no one would be sperming over her and defending her, but some smell pussy even through the electricity and pixels.

I usually don't insult people's intelligence, but the pretense you put up is very irritating, and it's only become even more obvious just how little thought you've put into this.

1. Don't twist my words. I said, "If she knows you aren't able to handle it," not that she never turns people who can't make it. Ella isn't omniscient, as you pointed out, so why do you suddenly expect her to be now? Is it because it serves your argument?
2a. Does he even blame her? Can you provide a quote of that?
2b. Not feeling remorse or 'bad' for killing someone doesn't mean anything other than she's desensitized to human death, which is not inherently evil. Also, saying she wasted his life for nothing implies there was no reason for her to infect him, which we know isn't true.
4a. "Just doing whatever the hell she did, maybe worse?" Okay, so you admit you have no idea what she intended, including whether it was how bad it was. Then why bring it up?
4b. Yes, yes, no need to go off on a tangent passive-aggressively conceding that you have no argument. Why even bring up her murdering her class at that point?
4c. She killed the hobo because he was a threat to the kids. I don't remember that scene too clearly, but wasn't he willing to get violent with them? Even if MC put him in his place, there's no reason to think he won't just show up later when MC isn't around. That's what bullies do.
4d. So? Depending on what her plan is, and what the alternatives are, I'd be willing to write off even that.
I mean, if everyone dies in a year, what does it matter if some kids die a little sooner?
5. Yes it is a counterargument. You're the one making the claim that Ella is evil, thus the burden of proof is on you. I don't need to provide evidence that Ella has a plan to save humanity and even bring back everyone who died since the monsters invaded, I can just point out that you have no idea what her plan is or how she arrived at the conclusion that she needs to enact it at all costs.
6. "She behaves as self-entitled, self-centered, self-absorbed, narcisstic cunt. To everyone she can, or think she can get away with. Power tripping is not a good thing, neither neutral too."
You didn't really provide any evidence of this.

You'd definitely have less people defending Ella, but I also defend Jake and Deryl. Her pussy isn't not a factor in my thought process.